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People don't believe in God or in gods for reasons."<br /><br />I do and in the page bloganders.blogspot.com (in the left menu) you will find a proof which proves the existence of a Creator and His purpose of humankind.<br /><br />Anders BranderudAnders Branderudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15696376904417632753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3180555273509830586.post-67153113055305558962007-06-29T14:37:00.000-07:002007-06-29T14:37:00.000-07:00Religion as a survival mechanism. That would mean ...Religion as a survival mechanism. That would mean atheists must do without this advantage and suffer the evolutionary consequences.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03878417478858474439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3180555273509830586.post-90463488698118220012007-06-29T13:47:00.000-07:002007-06-29T13:47:00.000-07:00Mark,You wrote that if God lies beyond all scienti...Mark,<BR/>You wrote that if God lies beyond all scientific investigation, then he can have no effect at all in our world. I wish I could convince myself that your argument is sound and live happily ever after as an atheist. Transcendentalists, as you know, argue that God transcends space, time and causality and is, therefore, not amenable to our investigations that are based on these concepts. However, he does influence our world through the agency of his laws, which, after processing through our notions of space, time and causality, we perceive as the laws of nature.parthahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11683792793296085538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3180555273509830586.post-84559200133350578192007-06-28T09:02:00.000-07:002007-06-28T09:02:00.000-07:00Mark--I think Professor Fish is an old sophist who...Mark--<BR/><BR/>I think Professor Fish is an old sophist who hides his meanings and intentions in a deep, dark forest of words. I honestly think he's been setting a trap for the commenters that he's getting ready to spring, a kind of pedagogic practical joke. But that's just a guess based on his posts and a quick read about him in Wikipedia.<BR/><BR/>I completely agree with your observation about how people reach a conclusion and then rationalize their way back. We are strange, strange creatures!<BR/><BR/>Personally, I take a Taoist approach that says, "He who says he knows does not know. He who says he doesn't know is wise indeed!"<BR/><BR/>I'm hoping someday to not know as much as I think I do today.Leonardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07680935313621903480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3180555273509830586.post-46765617401615028062007-06-28T06:02:00.000-07:002007-06-28T06:02:00.000-07:00Len,You're right, and I take your point. Professor...Len,<BR/><BR/>You're right, and I take your point. Professor Fish has focused on the logic of various arguments, and hasn't yet revealed the nature of his own beliefs..<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure precisely what a fundamentalist belief system entails, but I assume it would include the unwillingess even to entertain certain kinds of propositions. Believers, through faith, "know" that God exists and cannot consider the possibility that he does not. For atheists, I think, the story is rather different; they (we, as I'd count myself one of them) claim that we're willing to accept and believe absolutely anything, God, no God, 68 gods, anything, just so long as we are brought to such beliefs on the basis of evidence. From a strictly logical point of view, I suppose one could say that this is fundamentalist...but (it seems to me) of a very weak sort...<BR/><BR/>Mark <BR/><BR/>But it is exceedingly difficult (impossible?) for any of us to be completely dispassionate in our reasoning. I suspect we often find our conclusions emotionally and then create the reasons to justify ourselves afterward. ationalI'd be very surprised if he doesn't have religious faith.Mark Buchananhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11288455251267863265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3180555273509830586.post-6579698246577791682007-06-28T05:10:00.000-07:002007-06-28T05:10:00.000-07:00I have yet to see a psychologist theorize about th...I have yet to see a psychologist theorize about the advantage conferred by religion in terms of group or social identity (though the commitment theory mentioned in the Dow paper flirts near the edge of it.)<BR/><BR/>Dow defines religion as the "communication of a world view, or a created reality, that people develop as a group." He goes wrong when he assumes that these must develop first in the imagination of a founder. We know that humans are quick to form groups based on the most random kinds of similiarty (for example, based on an expressed preference in art, <A HREF="http://www.holah.karoo.net/tajfelstudy.htm" REL="nofollow">Tajfel</A>) and then act in predictable ways based on those groups. People attack out-group members and shower in-group members with resources. We all do this group identification automatically, quickly and unconsciously . We also know that humans experience physical pain and negative psychological consequences upon being excluded from a group (see work by Roy Baumeister). <BR/><BR/>Thus, it seems to me that Religion provides an external supernatural agency (God) who lends higher authority for the behavior of those who share a group identity: "We are the people who believe...." It defines who is in the In-group and sets down rules or guidelines for behavior among the members of the In-group (for example, we will not covet an In-group members wife or we will gather once a week to sing songs together.) It also lends authority to the In-groups behavior towards Out-group members (for example, our tribe can slaughter out-group members and take over their land because God says that is our right.)<BR/><BR/>It clearly has evolutionary value for a group, and it does not require a founder.peaceable_tatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16927995538292007453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3180555273509830586.post-19782991636351236382007-06-28T04:58:00.000-07:002007-06-28T04:58:00.000-07:00I think it's important to note that nowhere in the...I think it's important to note that nowhere in the three articles that he has published on The Times website has Professor Fish espoused a belief in God. 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